Dr. William Qilada, a man who has deeply influenced me, passed away on September 9. This was reason to interview Dr. Maurice Assad who has known Dr. William Suleiman Qilada well for probably more then 50 years
CH: When and how did you meet him for the first time?
Dr. Assad: I was a student in Sunday school in the church of Saint Mary in Geziret Badran in Shubra [Cairo] and he was one of the teachers in that Sunday school.
CH: So, you have known him well. If you look at his long career what are the most striking points in his life?
Dr. Assad: The most striking thing in Dr. Qilada is perseverance and strong will. He was actually in one sense a monk of his studies. He has been known for his deep thinking and scholarly investigations, digging deep in the material he studied. He wrote in a unique way where words do not just flow but express a deep thinking in all dimensions; legally, theologically and socially.
CH: That's true. He is known for his contribution to the dialogue between Muslims and Christians but he was much more than that.
Dr. Assad: Yes, the dialogue between Muslims and Christians was only one dimension and this has been expressed in many ways in his book on "Al-Hawar bayn Al-Adyan", dialogue between religions and in many other material but he developed even more than dialogue the concept of citizenship "Al-Muwatanna" and this was an important theme in his works and in his thinking, especially in his last years.
CH: What makes this concept of citizenship so special and why is this important for Egypt, also for Christians in Egypt.
Dr. Assad: This concept is important for all the Egyptians, not only for Christians in Egypt. Because of the tide of extremists and terrorists we needed to help each other, both Christians and Muslims to understand our mutual being, to explore our history, to find out what it means to be living on this land as one people.
CH: This was specifically important because extremism tended to make people to focus on religion per se.
Dr. Assad: Not only that. There was a book edited by Dr. Boutros Ghali called "Al-Watan Al-Wahed", The One Nation, with many contributions from different scholars like William Suleiman, Tareq Al-Bishry and others and a foreword by Dr. Boutros Ghali at that time. This was many years ago and this was the first good exploration on this issue of citizenship.
CH: Would you consider this to be a specific Christian answer to the growing fundamentalism in that or was it also a Muslim answer because many Muslims participated in the discussion on that concept as well.
Dr. Assad: Yes, what is probably unique for Dr. Qilada that he had a great interest in history and he has been exploring the historical foundations since the coming of Islam to Egypt. He explored the positive sides in that history and did not stop at specific incidents, when there were, you may say, persecutions or what ever it was against the Copts of Egypt. He explored the positive side where the Egyptians, Muslims and Christians, enjoyed being together, working together, living together, neighbor to neighbor in the same village, same town and same society.
CH: Writing history tends to be selective. People in the West tend to select the negative aspects and he was writing about the positive aspects without denying the negative aspects in history.
Dr. Assad: Without denying, yes but also without just pointing to the negative aspects but rather to point to the positive aspects that indicate the uniqueness of the Egyptian society in being an open society for all.
CH: Dr. Qilada also once told me that if you point out to the negative side only that that could become a self-fulfilling prophesy. If I am only looking at you, Dr. Maurice Assad, at all the things you have done wrong, at a certain moment you'll get fed up with me and you'll tell me 'thanks for your friendship but I don't need this.'
Dr. Assad: I remember Dr. Qilada once or even more then once speaking about history as a global thing. History is global and if you look into specific incidents this is not history, this is chronology. History is not chronology. It looks at the total aspects of life. If you stop at specific incidents chronologically and consider this to be history, this is NOT history, this is the philosophy behind the way William Qilada's thinking and writing.
CH: Many more orthodox Christians in the West think of dialogue as a theological dialogue which they see as an effort which dilutes your own faith, but I don't think Dr. Qilada was a man of theological dialogue but more of living together.
Dr. Assad: There is a difference between dialogue from the outside, a person in the West or a group of persons or a school of theology, not living day by day with Muslim neighbors, that is one thing. But living from within you also have to explore also from within and you cannot say it is not theological. It is the theology of being together. Of being human, living with a neighbor who is different in his religion but who shares with you every day life when you go to buy something from a grocery, are you selecting to buy from someone who is from your own religion or do you go to the place where you think that the service and prices are better then others. It is a fundamental basic issue in dialogue that real dialogue is not from without but from within.
CH: That is true but in Dr. Qilada's view dialogue didn't mean he had compromise where it came to his own faith. He once told me, then it was off the record, for example, that he didn't understand how a believing Christian could convert to Islam. This means that before everything else he was first of all convinced in his faith in Jesus Christ.
Dr. Assad: The dialogue was only one aspect of Dr. Qilada. He was also a theologian on his own merits and a master of liturgical studies. He explored how the Coptic Church and its liturgy has brought together the whole of society praying for the river, praying for the president, for the police and the army and all authorities in society and also praying that Christians would be dealt with justly. He has been exploring all these and wrote about this. In addition he was very good in meditating. For instance one of his books was 'Jesus in his house'. A story about how Jesus lived when he was a child. A unique work but I don't know if this was published. In addition to this he wrote meditations on the Holy Week, the Crucifixion, exploring the Biblical readings. He meditated on the way these readings have been organized for a certain meaning. Without deep studies we would loose the deeper meaning of the order of these readings in church.
CH: He had also specific views on Jerusalem.
Dr. Assad: Yes, certainly. He also wrote on this from his theological perspective. In the past he participated in conferences of the Middle East Council of Churches and even before that when there was the group called "Christians for Palestine". He participated in their meetings.
CH: What was his specific view on Jerusalem. When I spoke to him about Jerusalem he supported Pope Shenouda's view that the time was not yet ripe for Copts to go to Jerusalem.
Dr. Assad: He was looking towards Jerusalem from a historical and theological perspective. The decision of the Pope is a religious and social decision and I don't think it was in the core of William Qilada's work.
Around 1962 there was a group of young leaders among them Milad Hanna, William Qilada, Murad Wahba, who was also at the funeral of William Qilada. This group was against the World Council of Churches and from there came William Qilada's book "Al-Kinisa Masriya tuhareb Al-Ista'amar Al-Sihyuniya" the Egyptian church fights against Zionist occupation. When I worked in the World Council of Churches in Geneva and William Qilada came to visit us I took him around and met with the heads of the departments of the World Council of Churches and I assume he became more understanding of what it means to be ecumenical and to have a wider view of the ecumene. This is my guess. I don't think he wrote much afterwards about this issue.
CH: But wasn't he very loyal to the Coptic Orthodox Church?
Dr. Assad: He was a good Christian. He was good worshipper, a kneeler to the extent that he developed something on his head like some Muslims have, those who kneel a lot. He was a man of prayer, certainly. William was a good Christian who went to church regularly. William raised a good family. His late wife was a very saintly woman. I want to emphasize that William had these spiritual theological elements and not to forget his occupation as a legal man. He offered me a copy of his doctoral dissertation which was on the will in Roman law.
CH: What has he done in the legal field?
Dr. Assad: His last position before retirement was the deputy chief of the Maglis Al-Dawla, the State Court. It is a court when a person, an employee or a company has a complaint against a government department. You file your case not through regular courts but through this court which was called Maglis Al-Dawla. In this perspective he wrote his monumental work on the Didascalia, the teachings of the Apostles, on which he spent probably about ten years. He went for this book and checked the Vatican library. The first printing was in 1979.
CH: How much influence do you think Dr. William Qilada had in Egypt? Was he the lonely thinker or did he influence people?
Dr. Assad: William Qilada was invited to speak and to share in particularly youth meetings with bishop Moussa. He also spoke in conferences. He was a respected authority. In terms of popularity scholars were never popular. There is a difference between a popular preacher and a deep thinker who does not write to the general public but rather to the generations to come.
William was a scholar on his own. But those who knew him, like yourself, we used to turn to him for consultancy, for asking questions. In addition William Qilada was working with others on a Coptic Encyclopedia in Arabic which will be published in five volumes and each volume has about 500 pages. He was also part of the editorial committee of the St. Mark Foundation for Church History. The Foundation was founded in the USA. Similarly there was a group in Egypt and William and myself were members of that group.
William was a solitary writer but what he wrote will be read and reread, published and republished for many years to come. His book the Didascalia was reprinted a few years ago by CEOSS an Evangelical organization. Here is a Coptic writer and he agreed to be published by an Evangelical organization. That shows he has influence.
CH: Dr. William Qilada was strongly opposed to foreign influence in Egypt, including Christian organizations advocating for specifically Christian rights. He said 'don't touch us'. Could you comment on this?
Dr. Assad: This is because of his concept of dialogue. These organizations abroad have been dealing with specific incidents. The way the have learned about it and the way they have conceived it. But what William Qilada was looking at was the globality of the issue. The Christians of Egypt are citizens. The constitution indicates that all Egyptians are equal, regardless of race, religion or anything. This principle in the constitution is very important. William was indicating what this means. To stop at one incident and to say that Christians in Egypt are persecuted because there is an incident here or there is self-defeating and it is harming Christians living in Egypt.
CH: Why? Could you explain this in the view of Dr. William Qilada. Why did he think this was harmful.
Dr. Assad: For William Qilada this was more then believing and more then simply harmful. In his thought the individual incidents are not the expression of history. As we mentioned earlier we must differentiate between chronology and history. History looks at the global position and the global living together as neighbors. We have experienced this in our own lives. I hope I would live to write my personal experiences in that respect. For example when I lived in the village until I was nine years old I remember the Muslim neighbors called my father 'Amm Michael' [Uncle Michael] and said he has the true Gospel. It depends on the Christians on how they behave also. Don't blame others for criticizing your faults or mistakes. The more Christians are true Christians they will face up to their faith. I remember William Qilada has been exploring the writing of the early church fathers. In the beginning of Christianity the Christians were few and they were persecuted. He was looking through the material of the early fathers and how they dealt with persecution and how they defended themselves. Not by attacking others, or by crying and complaining but courage and also expressing their views on the faith in the face of the persecutors.
CH: Without needless inciting others.
Dr. Assad: Yes, that's true. Be a Christian but don't throw stones on others.
CH: Could you say a few words about Dr. Qilada's funeral?
Dr. Assad: Bishop Moussa spoke about the three main elements in his life and work; the dialogical element and citizenship or the national element. The second is the legal element. The last is his theological and spiritual work. Also counselor Tareq el-Bisheri and Prof. Mina Abdel Malek, professor of Engineering at Alexandria University, spoke about Dr. Qilada's life and work. Dr. Mina quoted from his book "El Hawar bayn Al-Adyan" he put the dimensions of William Qilada in the dialogue, his spiritual, liturgical and theological work, including the Didascalia. Bishop Musa emphasized William Qilada as a spiritual person who lived his faith as a true Christian. He mentioned the purity of his heart and his smile. You have never seen him angry, even in defending his views.
Qilada wrote about principles, things beyond the immediate presence, let me say. This is important.
CH: William Qilada has been criticized by some Copts overseas as being a government man.
Dr. Assad: This criticism is un-founded. It is an allegation that has no basis. That has no understanding and such people might not have read William Qilada or known what his thinking is. William was a theologian, a philosopher and man of dialogue, a man of depth, a an beyond the immediate situation. Not utopian but trying to show the positive aspects for people who have the faith to live together. But for people who have left Egypt and live a abroad and think about correcting life in a place where they did not continue to live, this is not fair of them. They have no right to do this. That is my personal view now. Their criticism, such people are fanatic and lack knowledge. One time they criticized me because I was working in the World Council of Churches. I don't stop at such people.
CH: It's due to a lack of knowledge. Back to William Qilada, he supported this Religious News Service from the Arab World because it is not focussed only on incidents such as the murder of a monk of Deir el-Muharaq.
Dr. Assad: That's true.
CH: Is there anything you would like to add?
Dr. Assad: In addition to all this William was a committed man, a good friend. On the fortieth day after the death of late Suleiman Nessim we took him with a car to the service. He was really a nice person. You never asked him something without he responded. We'll miss him as good friend, as a teacher, a professor, a person to whom you go to widen your views, to benefit to widen your views on things you are engaged in. A person like him you won't find in a 100 years. His death is a big loss.
