[The interview with the Bishop of Shubra al-Kheima took place on November 21, 2002. Transcript of the tape and editing was done by Rick Anderson. This text has been seen by Bishop Marcos prior to placement in the RNSAW]
The interview with Bishop Marcos was conducted by the same people who had met with the fathers Johanna and Basilius at the Monastery of Makarios, November 9 [RNSAW, 2002, week 46A, art. 18]. We had heard their story and it was important to hear the opinion of Bishop Marcos who is known as one of "the children of Pope Shenouda," the description of a bishop who is close and loyal to the Pope. Before we met with Bishop Marcos we saw the recently opened bookstore of the Monastery of Makarios in Shubra. We met again with Father Basilius who told us clergy should not be discussion political issues. Some of his comments were reflected in the interview below.
The discussion started immediately about the rules regarding succession of a pope in the days of Pope Yusab. He was the bishop of Girga before becoming Patriarch and many people did not like this. They believed the pope should have been elected from among the monks. Pope Yusab was even kidnapped.
Bishop Marcos: No, the reason for the kidnapping of [Pope Yusab] was because one of his laymen led him. That was the most important reason.
Q: Was it mismanagement?
Bishop Marcos: Mismanagement and for following laymen who led him in many directions. Not for ordination of bishops or consecration of bishops.
Q: The kidnap of Pope Yusab made the Sunday School Magazine start a discussion about the succession of the pope. They argued that a pope should be elected from the monks.
Bishop Marcos: Yes, the successor of the pope can [also] be a general bishop, however they didn’t have a general bishop for some time.
Q: In the time of Pope Yusab, there were no general bishops?
Bishop Marcos: Yes. General bishops but after some years we forgot about these general bishops but then we ordained [in 1962] Bishop Samuel, Bishop Shenouda and [other] general bishops. There is no law in our church forbidding the general bishop from becoming pope.
Q: But isn’t the general bishop a new function in the church?
Bishop Marcos: Yes.
Q: Is it something new that was instituted for the church in later years? In the old church from the fourth century onwards, there were the diocesan bishops and the pope, but no general bishop?
Bishop Marcos: Correct.
Q: The general bishop was first instituted in 1962.
Bishop Marcos: By Pope Kyrillos. The first general bishops were the Bishops Samuel and Shenouda and later Bishop Gregorius. His Holiness Pope Shenouda later consecrated other bishops and general bishops.
Q: Reiss [see RNSAW, 2002, week 46A, art. 23] speaks about the general bishop’s function under the immediate jurisdiction of the pope. They function as the flexible Episcopal "einsatztruppe des Papstes" [executive troops of the Pope]. He can change their duties and tasks according to his will. This is something new in Coptic Orthodoxy, as the old church canon states that no bishop is allowed to interfere in the tasks of a colleague.
Bishop Marcos: There are no laws in our church that mention these items. And I’m quite sure because previous to His Holiness Pope Shenouda, there was one bishop ordained as a pope who was formerly the bishop of the diocese.
Q: Yes, but in the old cannon law of the church it says that one bishop should not interfere in the diocese of another bishop.
Bishop Marcos: Yes.
Q: You are the bishop of Shubra al-Kheima, so no other bishop has a right to interfere in your diocese, as this is your diocese?
Bishop Marcos: Yes, but the general bishop has no diocese.
Q: He has a diocese such as the diocese of youth or education.
Bishop Marcos: No, this is called a general diocese. A diocese in our definition means a [geographical] area with church [buildings], priests and people, but a general bishop has no priests, or people and he can serve all over Egypt. He has no appointed people or priests, he isn’t the same as other bishops and His Holiness can transfer him to another field of service.
Q: But he cannot transfer you because you are a diocesan bishop?
Bishop Marcos: Yes, but a diocesan bishop cannot be ordained as pope. Although this happened several years ago.
Q: It happened, three times with Pope Joannis XIX, Pope Makarius III and Pope Yusab II [see RNSAW, 2002, week 46A, art. 23]
Bishop Marcos: Yes.
Q: Four bishops have become Pope but Pope Shenouda was a general bishop. That is the difference between a diocesan bishop and a general bishop.
Q: And what is the policy now? You can be a general bishop but not a diocesan bishop if you want to become Pope?
Bishop Marcos: Yes, but it happened three times in our church.
Q: And was that legal or just accepted?
Bishop Marcos: Our Synod can make that decision, but the decision should be made
with the pope [presiding the Synod]. Now if we would implement another law, one where we can choose a pope from the diocesan bishops, general bishops or monks, and if the Synod would make this decision, then it would be legal. But the decision should be made with the pope.
Q: So if, (now this of course is not nice to speak about), His Holiness passes away - we hope he’ll be blessed with a long life - and if there is no change in the Synod, then his successor could only be elected from monks or general bishops?
Bishop Marcos: Yes:
Q: But not from diocesan bishops?
Bishop Marcos: No.
Q: But if the Synod makes that decision now, then it could change.
Bishop Marcos: yes, it could change.
Q: So as with the three previous popes who had been diocesan bishops, the Synod had it changed before they became pope, i.e. Pope Joannis XIX, Pope Makarius III and Pope Yusab II?
Bishop Marcos: I think so, because we cannot make any decision without the Synod in electing the pope.
Q: So as soon as the pope passes away, the Synod cannot make another decision?
The only thing the Synod can do is to follow the instructions of the law of electing a new pope. That’s it, and nothing else?
Bishop Marcos: Yes.
Q: What about the cannon law? Is there not a fixed cannon law in the church? Something has been published I think in the last two years.
Bishop Marcos: It’s not mentioned in the cannon law about this item.
Q: It doesn’t mention it?
Bishop Marcos: No, because during the preparation of the cannon law, there was no general bishop at that time.
Q: The monastery of Makarios published a book on cannon law. Officially the church has not made any statement regarding that book as far as we understood from the monastery of Makarios.
Bishop Marcos: I haven’t seen the book. Every book written by Father Matta is sent to me and signed by him.
Q: But this was not written by Father Matta.
Bishop Marcos: This means I haven’t read this book.
Q: So, what if we would ask the monastery to send you a copy of that book?
Bishop Marcos: Yes, thank you very much.
Q: It is a three volume book. Now for the first time, a book is published on cannon law. Father Basilius has been compiling the sources and states he had not added anything himself. He has been compiling all the existing material. But it was never in print.
Bishop Marcos: I have no knowledge about this book until now. Until I read it, I can’t give my opinion. Once I have read this book and checked the references with the cannon law, then I’ll give you my decision.
Q: Good, we’ll ask them to send you the books.
Bishop Marcos: Thank you. I’ve known Father Basilios for forty years, before I was a monk and he was in Beit al-Takris.
Q: One of the issues seems to be that monks in the monastery of Makarios believe that church leaders should not make political statements.
Bishop Marcos: We are citizens of this country. If I am asked about my political views, should I not tell them? If I am asked by representatives from magazines, radio, and TV about the Palestinian situation for example, or even something political or of my country, I would only say, "Our Father who art in Heaven," and that’s all. Of course I give my opinions as any other citizen.
Q: Is it political activities?
Bishop Marcos: Activities! We do not have activities but of course if any person asks me about something, I would reply and answer them. I would not deny being a member of this country. I’m a citizen. This is my land, my country.
Q: But should a priest run for a seat in parliament, or is he then overstepping his limits?
Bishop Marcos: I don’t agree that priests should be members of the parliament. But I agree if anyone asks me about the political situation in our country, or something concerning our country, I should understand and answer them.
Q: Yes, so where is the distinction then between politics. Where is the limit?
Bishop Marcos: The limit! I can’t go to the members of parliament to discuss the relations between our country and the US, England, North America or South America, or Africa or something like that, it’s not my job. That job is for the politician. If anyone asks me about the problems between Palestinians and Israelis, I should answer them even though I’m not a politician.
Q: What about political rights within Egypt? Should clergymen talk only about the rights of Christians as a community in Egypt? Or should we talk about the rights of Egyptians in general because of the authorities…
Bishop Marcos: Both!
Q: Quite often church leaders seem to talk a lot about just Christians having a problem for an example as a minority in a country that is predominantly Muslim.
Bishop Marcos: He’s both a Christian and also a citizen of this country. Both.
Q: So you can speak about specific Christian rights, and also speak, for example what His Holiness did a couple of days ago at the Lions Club, the famous…
Bishop Marcos: Yes, he talks about this thing many times.
Q: So why it was blown up?
Bishop Marcos: Some people just like to play, on the table.
Q: Yes, these were not new statements.
Bishop Marcos: Of course, it happened many times [that pope Shenouda spoke about these issues]. Many magazines, newspapers and even TV reported this.
Q: But that’s allowed? Pope Shenouda or some bishops do not see it a problem to make statements like that. But here you probably have differences with others who believe church leaders should not make political statements.
Bishop Marcos: After the Lions Club, the next day, I met with Gezira TV, and they told me what His Holiness said in the Lions Club. I told them he had spoken only about a small point, but I would like to make a major point. What are the major points? This is not the only problem. Christians are not well represented in the government, no Christian is director of a security department, or the president of any county. There are no Christian deans in universities and so on. And the main topic is, where is the Christian image in the media? None. Even if you have ten channels full of Islamic influence, where is the Christian influence? There is none.
Q: There are Christmas and Easter programs!
Bishop Marcos: We have only one hour at Christmas, one hour at Easter, and four hours only for the mass. What about the influence of our religion?
Q: Along with Christmas and Easter, many Christian articles are published.
Bishop Marcos: Maybe in Al-Akbar or other publications for one day on special occasions. I told that on TV and the same thing in some newspapers. In November I was interviewed by a journalist from a Tunisian newspaper. He told me he would like to interview me for their newspaper for the usual news, what are the relations between you and the authority of the people? I told them many things, but the main issue is that the Christian people would like to see themselves in the media, to see myself, and my religion in the church. Because you know the majority of Egyptians only have knowledge from TV, not of course from books. Even we have a sixty percent literacy rate, the people don’t read, the majority doesn’t read. Their intelligence comes from TV and magazines but in general, TV. National TV that is, not satellite.
Q: Now, there is this spectacular interview with His Holiness a few months ago that was on satellite, not on national TV. But is there any difference concerning this feud between church and politics, and between Pope Shenouda and Father Matta al-Maskeen? It seems to be a very small issue, and that others are making this much larger than it really is. Or is there really a difference?
Bishop Marcos: I don’t know the heart of Father Matta exactly regarding the relations between the priests, religion, clergymen or religious people. But I know exactly the heart of His Holiness and myself. I discussed the situation of Palestine and Israel many times on channel one of the Egyptian TV. I’m not a politician. I only discuss matters from a religious point of view, even if it is political.
Q: Yes, I know what you mean. I don’t know what Father Matta wrote about this issue, but I know what Father Basilius told us about this issue tonight.
Bishop Marcos: He can say what he likes. I respect what he says, but I’m free to say what I like.
Q: He is in fact saying that all these problems between Muslims and Christians have nothing to do with religion, but the factor of religion is brought into non-religious conflicts. People do this all the time but it doesn’t start with religion. It starts as social problems, and then people bring in the religious elements. One of us asked about Al-Kosheh. This is an example of a conflict that didn’t start as a religious conflict, but religion was brought in. So the issue is social, so we then must look at social issues.
Bishop Marcos: Now all over the world it is interpreted that religion is the basis under lying the problems. For example, the leaders whether in Washington or elsewhere, say that Muslims are responsible [for certain acts/behavior], this means that religion is the issue of the matter. Take for instance the Chechens in Moscow, why are there problems? It is because in many cases religion can be interpreted as the basic cause.
Q: Where are the limits, where do you draw the line?
Bishop Marcos: There are no limits! Why are there no limits? If I’m asked my opinion on the selection of the foreign affairs minister, I have no opinion. Or my opinion about the relations between North and South America. I have no opinion. But if I am asked my opinion on the relations between Egypt and Israel, then I can answer because Egypt, the US, and all of Africa, is my country and my problem. I’m a citizen of this country.
Q: If we may change the focus now… because I think we’ve exhausted this topic?
Bishop Marcos: Yes.
Q: What about Father Matta al-Maskeen, and his followers and their writings? I understand the church has [taken] some issues with them. They described [certain controversial] books as maybe heretical or not really the [correct] teaching of the church. I’d like to understand why the church has issues with Father Matta’s writings.
Bishop Marcos: Father Matta is a very good writer, but many of his books are translated from other books. And we Orthodox, have our ways of explaining the Bible and our dogma. I have read his small booklet about the resurrection of Jesus Christ. And he said that, Jesus Christ had ascended to Heaven just after his resurrection from the tomb, and when Miriam and [Mary] Magdalene met Him, He told them, "I’ve not yet ascended to the Father." Then He ascended to Heaven and descended. We haven’t read anything in the Bible that says that Jesus Christ ascended and descended before Pentecost. We haven’t read any verse in the Bible about this. Nobody discusses this matter about Jesus ascending and descending. I read his book myself. Then there is another article about the communion. He said that we will have a communion in Heaven. We believe that the communion which we take is the joining together of the one body with Jesus Christ, for the repentance and forgiveness of our sins. There is no sin in Heaven and in Heaven we will be one with Jesus Christ. There is no need for this communion. I read it myself in his book, The Sacrament of Holy Communion.
Q: And what about the Holy Spirit?
Bishop Marcos: There are other books about the Holy Spirit. For this reason His Holiness has differences between his own dogma and the dogma of Father Matta.
Q: Where did Father Matta get these ideas?
Bishop Marcos: We don’t know, perhaps from other books.
Q: Outside the Coptic Orthodox church?
Bishop Marcos: Of course.
Q: Are there other churches who have these same ideas that you mentioned?
Bishop Marcos: I don’t know, but I have read it myself in his books, maybe they are translated from other books.
Q: Is this the reason why his books are not allowed in church book stores?
Bishop Marcos: I can sell his books, but with a warning. If anyone wants to buy his books, he should be careful about the contents.
Q: Do you do that?
Bishop Marcos: Yes, myself.
Q: So his books are here?
Bishop Marcos: Yes.
Q: But this doesn’t apply to all churches?
Bishop Marcos: I’m responsible for my diocese only.
Q: That is the typical diocesan bishop’s answer.
Q: How long has Father Matta been arguing these issues or been putting forward these opinions?
Bishop Marcos: For many years now.
Q: He has always had these opinions?
Bishop Marcos: Yes.
Q: Is he the first person to come up with an opinion so different from everyone else?
Bishop Marcos: There were also some differences with the late Bishop Gregorius. But these are different from Father Matta’s ideas.
Q: But how does the church deal with this? We hear about the dialogue between the Orthodox and the Catholic’s, the Reformed and the Anglican churches. Is there a dialogue to address internal differences in the church? How is it being dealt with?
Bishop Marcos: The problem is that several years Father Matta considered himself as the [spiritual] father of Pope Shenouda. Then how does the son dialogue with the father?
Q: Could you explain this?
Bishop Marcos: I met Father Matta several years ago for a discussion but with difficulties because he has his complete confidence in his opinions.
Q: And His Holiness has confidence in his opinion also.
Bishop Marcos: Yes.
Q: So, these are two strong willed leaders. So how are they to be reconciled? This seems to be hard to achieve as long as both are alive?
Bishop Marcos: There is not a problem between their personalities. The differences exist only because of their different dogma. But they can meet with each other for discussion generally.
Q: His Holiness visited the monastery of Makarios four years ago.
Bishop Marcos: Yes, and he visited Father Matta many times while he was in the hospital. He also received Father Matta in his residence.
Q: When was the last time you saw him [Father Matta]?
Bishop Marcos: I think it was a few years ago.
Q: Why is that none of the monks from the Makarios monastery became bishops?
Bishop Marcos: They refused.
Q: They say they don’t refuse.
Bishop Marcos: No, I know they refused in the 1970s. I’ll tell you something which I am exactly sure of. Many years ago when his Holiness met Father Matta, which was in 1972 or 1973. He discussed this matter with Father Matta, and he told the pope he didn’t have any monks to be a bishop. But then some of the monks from the monastery of Makarios left and went to St. Bishoi and there they became bishops. This includes Bishop Bissenti, Bishop Johanna and Isaiah, Agnatius and Yacobus.
Q: Do they offer an opinion on Father Matta’s ideas that we discussed a minute ago? Did they once believe in his ideas and later they changed their minds?
Bishop Marcos: Yes, they left the monastery.
Q: Did they live with him before?
Bishop Marcos: Yes,
Q: Then they changed their minds?
Bishop Marcos: Yes.
Q: Why?
Bishop Marcos: Because they could not live in the monastery under the heavy pressure from the authority resulting from Father Matta’s books. In the 1970s monks were prohibited to read al-Kiraza, his [Pope Shenouda’s] books or magazines. These and other related issues led to them leaving Father Matta.
Q: To read al-Kiraza?
Bishop Marcos: Yes.
Q: Forbidden to read El-Kiraza?
Bishop Marcos: Yes.
Q: But we’ve just been in the book store of the monastery of St. Makarios and we received a copy of Al-Kiraza.
Bishop Marcos: This is something new. How many magazines do they have?
Q: I don’t know, but all the books of pope Shenouda are in the same book store.
Bishop Marcos: Maybe this is something that is just recently done. I visited St. Makarios when I was a monk and I visited it twice when I was a bishop. And I didn’t find any material of His Holiness there at that time. Maybe this happened a few years ago.
Q: Yes, that’s possible but at least Father Basilius explained that they want to have all publications of the church in the bookstore. This is including the books of Pope Shenouda and all the bishops including Bishop Musa and Father Matta of course.
Bishop Marcos: This is something new.
Q: What about this investigation about an article that appeared in the [Sunday School Magazine]. What is this all about exactly? There was an investigation about the article of Father Basilius.
Q: Father Basilius wrote an article in the Sunday School Magazine. And, according to al-Kiraza, His Holiness decided that it should be investigated. What is the background of this?
Bishop Marcos: I don’t know about this. I don’t know anything about this. I haven’t read anything about the matter.
Q: And you have no problem with the article Father Basilius wrote in the Sunday School Magazine?
Bishop Marcos: No. No problem, why?
Q. Metropolitan Bishoi said the church cannot make an ecclesiastical trial for Father Matta al-Maskeen because he is so senior but this could be done with individual monks from the monastery of Makarios.
Bishop Marcos: An Ecclesiastical trial?
Q: How is someone tried in the church? The article in al-Kiraza speaks about an investigation. But Bishop Bishoi spoke about a trial.
Bishop Marcos: We haven’t had a trial until now with any monk from St. Makarios.
Q: What is the procedure if a monk or a priest is violating important principles of the church. How does the church deal with that?
Bishop Marios: It is easy to discuss these issues with monks, including Father Basilius. But no matter is easy to discuss with Father Matta.
Q: In what forum, do you just sit and talk? Or is there a specific forum of discussion.
Bishop Marcos: No, just sit down with him.
Q: So if there are disagreements how does this work?
Bishop Marcos: I make a comment and the other [party] makes a comment, that’s all.
Q: Does the Synod call people in?
Bishop Marcos: No, if you have a committee in the Synod, than we can ask any monk to appear before it. We can also have separate dialogue but this is yet to happen.
Q: And has anyone been excommunicated?
Bishop Marcos: No, not unless a monk breaks his monastic vows. But if he makes a confession and his confession father agrees he can take the Holy Communion again.
Q: But aren’t there problems around Father Aghaton? He was not excommunicated?
Bishop Marcos: No, he lives in his house in Heliopolis.
Q: So he was just simply told to live in a certain place and that’s it?
Bishop Marcos: No, the [church] authorities ordered him to return to the St. Bishoi monastery.
Q: Which he did?
Bishop Marcos: He refused.
Q: And then you have Father Ibrahim Abdel Sid who passed away. He was not excommunicated?
Bishop Marcos: No, he was not excommunicated. He was still a priest at that time.
Q: But he was not allowed to celebrate the Holy Communion?
Bishop Marcos: Yes [true].
Q: So no one has been excommunicated from the church?
Bishop Marcos: Yes, there were some.
Q: But laymen only and not bishops or monks?
Bishop Marcos: Priests such as Father Andraous [not a monk but a married priest] and Daniel are examples.
Q: So how are people excommunicated? When does that happen?
Bishop Marcos: If there is a major offense with someone he will stand before the special committee headed by Metropolitan Bishoi. And after some discussion, that person can be warned and if he refuses to obey, then they can excommunicate him from the church.
Q: What is the name of the committee?
Bishop Marcos: The Clergical Council.
Q: But that’s not the issue with any monk from the monastery of Makarios?
Bishop Marcos: No, there are no major offenses with them. Any small problems are resolved in the monastery. But there are no dogmatic or theological problems.
Q: So no one has been excommunicated for dogmatic or theological issues?
Bishop Marcos: Father Daniel.
Q: Was it more serious than for Father Matta’s writings?
Bishop Marcos: Father Daniel made some big mistakes.
Q: How long ago was this?
Bishop Marcos: Seven or eight years ago I think.
Q: And it was for something much more serious than Father Matta’s writings?
Bishop Marcos: I don’t think this is a big problem because His Holiness considered this question during his weekly meeting - that some say there is communion in Heaven and there will be no trial because we have read related verses in the Bible on this issue.
Q: What was Father Daniel’s problem?
Bishop Marcos: This was a major problem. I read in one of his books where he said God’s creation was destroyed by the devil.
Q: Father Daniel is very strong on issues concerning the spiritual realm.
Bishop Marcos: But there are no references in the Bible about this. God created the world perfectly and the devil demolished His creation. He wrote this in his book. He is not Protestant, Orthodox, or Catholic.
Q: He’s not evangelical now is he?
Bishop Marcos: No
Q: Is he the only one who has been excommunicated over dogmatic issues?
Bishop Marcos: There was a layman who was excommunicated for doctrinal issues. I attended this meeting that was for different theological understanding.
Q: So, you are in fact saying that the number of people excommunicated is very small?
Bishop Marcos: Yes, very small. It happens if some theological problems involve topics that are contrary to Orthodox teachings. And if those with these unorthodox views are determined to maintain them, the church should of course excommunicate them.
Q: But no one has thought to do that with monks from the Makarios monastery.
Bishop Marcos: No, because the theological problems there we can resolve through our discussions in our meetings. Also the books of Father Matta are not popular books. The only ones who can understand these books are the highly educated. It’s not easy for any one to understand the books of Father Matta.
Q: And Father Daniel chose an easier style to write in?
Bishop Marcos: He has a way of writing that the common people understand.
Q: He is a preacher who had thousands of common people coming to his meetings. Father Matta is an intellectual writer and so the intellectuals read his material but not the general public. That makes a difference.
Bishop Marcos: This is partly the reason we are not afraid of Father Matta’s books. The people who read his books can’t understand the contents.
Q: Some people say Metropolitan Bishoi is the main person opposing the views of Father Matta.
Bishop Marcos: No, His Holiness had a problem with Father Matta for theological reasons before Metropolitan Bishoi became a bishop.
Q: But Bishop Bishoi spoke about a possible trial against monks of monastery of Makarios?
Bishop Marcos: What type of trial and with whom? All the monks or some monks?
Q: Some of the monks. He said "perhaps some of his [Father Matta’s] disciples may be judged by the church." He did not mention specific names. A trial for theological problems.
Bishop Marcos: This should not be from the Clergical Council but it should be from the Synodical committee.
Q: Then a Synodical committee, but what does this mean?
Bishop Marcos: This means there is a problem involving theological differences.
Q: Will this be the first time that monks will be brought before the committee?
Bishop Marcos: Yes.
Q: Has the Synodical committee ever investigated a monk on theology issues?
Bishop Marcos: No, it started with Father Daniel.
Q: Yes, because that also was a theological problem.
Q: But it’s very rare for them to have a problem with monks?
Bishop Marcos: Yes, because monks live in the monasteries writing books that are not easy to write, and every book should have the approval of a bishop or the bishop of the monastery. I think the majority of the books are in order, but maybe there are some new books from St. Makarios. I don’t know of any new books. Have they written any new books?
Q: Al-Kiraza mentioned an article Father Basilius wrote. This will be the first time in all these years that disputes with Father Mattta and his diciples have come to this level. Is this correct?
Bishop Marcos: Father Basilius?
Q: Yes, perhaps it is because he published three volumes on canon law?
Bishop Marcos: I don’t know but if that is the case His Holiness will deal with this. His Holiness himself may discuss this point with Father Matta.
Q: That has not happened thus far.
Bishop Marcos: No, maybe after the pope’s return from Australia.
Q: Father Basilius told us that he wrote a letter to His Holiness and he was told the same thing as in Al-Kiraza and it is that His Holiness himself will discuss this article with him.
Bishop Marcos: Father Basilius will be able to explain to His Holiness what he wrote.
Q: But this will be the first time that any disputes over the ideas of Father Matta and his followers has gotten this far. And the first time to have one of them investigated. Why is it happening now?
Bishop Marcos: Because they have written something in the magazine.
Q: But they have been writing things for years.
Bishop Marcos: No, not for years.
Q: But what about the books of Father Matta?
Q: The books are from Father Basilius.
Bishop Marcos: Maybe there is more to the situation than what Father Matta has written in his books. And [the magazine] is a popular means of communication for the majority of the people.
Q: Maybe it is somewhat similar to Father Daniel, once it affects more people it becomes more serious. How popular is the Sunday School Magazine?
Bishop Marcos: It is distributed to many people, including myself.
Q: Of course, but does the average person in the church read it? How wide spread is the Sunday School Magazine to the common people?
Bishop Marcos: They get it, because it costs little and the people can read it for the different items and subjects.
Q: The strange thing is that, when Father Basilius explained us what he said in his article, he seemed to think that this was not a theological issue but about the link between politics and religion. He believes the clergy should not be discussing political issues.
Bishop Marcos: I understood from al-Kiraza that it was for theological problems.
Q: He didn’t mention theological problems when we talked to him.
Bishop Marcos: No.
Q: What is the status of the Sunday School Magazine? Pope Shenouda was very negative about the Sunday School Magazine several years ago. In 1994 he said this is no longer a magazine belonging to the church. So what is the status of the Sunday School Magazine?
Bishop Marcos: His Holiness was upset because the director of this magazine at that time wrote an article about the church, His Holiness and the bishops.
Q: Pope Shenouda responded in 1994 that the Sunday School Magazine was no longer connected to the Sunday School Movement because of the critical statements of the clergy. Dr. Reiss finds this statement curious because Pope Shenouda III’s own critical stance toward the clergy in the days when he was responsible for the Sunday School Magazine.
Bishop Marcos: The criticism of the Sunday School Magazine was very severe but the then editor-in-chief Suleiman Nessim passed away four years ago. We hope the Magazine has changed.
The interview ended with Bishop Marcos promising he would read Father Basilius’ three volumes on canon law and would respond
